Should I get two LGD at the same time?

 

Two mature dogs working together, the age difference between these two dogs is 5 years. These work well together and can be easily separated and placed with different groups of livestock as required. They are not hyper bonded to each other.

Should I get two LGD at the same time?
©Louise Liebenberg(2021)
Written for The Shepherd's Magazine.

 As with everything on the internet, every person that participates on online forums and other social media, has an opinion. The way many of these social media platforms are set up is that the responses are generally “short form”, a few sentences. What we often forget when writing short answers to questions is that every situation is unique. So, when giving short answers we cannot really dive into the nuances and complexities of the situation. In most cases the person asking the question is only giving the bare minimum of information, making is easy to misunderstand specific situations. Often “blanket statement” type answers are given.  In most cases, a lot of “confirmation bias” takes place, the person writing the question only wants to hear answers that support or validate their own opinion. On the large social media platforms with thirty thousand plus members, the opinions can span from educated, to well meaning, to outright ignorant. Sifting through all the online advise is a minefield and often the person asking becomes even more confused as to what is the right thing to do.

Very often people post that they have just bought their first two livestock guardian dog (LGD) puppies! Most people are excited for this journey and are looking for information on how to raise them correctly, within a few short minutes the opinions start rolling in:

·         Fantastic, you must have two puppies together as they will keep each other company,

·       Oh no, get rid of one, as it is near impossible to raise two pups at the same time,

·         Read about littermate syndrome

·         Littermate syndrome does not exist

·         LGD cannot work alone

·         It is better to raise one first, before adding another

·         Only a bad breeder will sell you two pups at the same time

·         Good for the breeder to sell you two, they work best in two’s

The person posting this just gets overloaded with multiple contradicting opinions. Now what to do? None of these opinions are completely right, or wrong, they are usually based on each person’s own experience. That experience however, could range from a LGD breed being kept in a pet home to a working ranch with thousands of ewes grazing large ranges. So, this article is going to take a closer look at some of these statements.

I believe that the success of having two puppies at the same time is very dependant on things such as acreage, predator pressure number of livestock, type of livestock, experience of the owner, how much time an owner has for these pups and finally and if the breeder can mentor the buyer.

The biggest problem with raising two pups, (siblings or pups of a similar age)  is that issues  only show after a few months. Nine-week-old pups are usually great together, however at nine months old these pups can show a range of problematic behaviour. Things such as hyper bonding to each other rather than to the stock, getting into mischief together, double teaming the livestock causing injuries, roaming and the high potential of fighting once they start reaching maturity. These problems are often lumped together and called littermate syndrome.  The biggest challenge for the owner is to be able to recognize problem behaviour and intervene before behaviours become established.

Pups that are not bonded to the livestock generally show no attentiveness or even protectiveness toward the livestock, this in turn can affect the trustworthiness of the pups as they have not developed a relationship with the livestock to the point where the dogs feel they need to protect them. The pups become more obsessed with each other and pay less attention to the owner or the livestock. Separating these pups is usually the solution, however it can become a nightmare as they will be very persistent in escaping to be with one another. Some dogs end up fighting so badly, that they can often never be together again. All, in all the challenges that arise from raising multiple young dogs together can result in an owner being unable to manage these dogs effectively. Most times, one dog ends up being rehomed, shot, or becomes the porch dog.  This is the main reason why the general advise to new owners is not to acquire two pups at the same time, particularly if the owners are new to owning LGD. 

This single pup in Macedonia is allowed to go with the shepherd when he is out grazing the goats.

On a small operation the problems can be exacerbated as the dogs have no opportunity to get away from each other, this can lead to more tensions between them. With small operations there is generally less stimulation (work, movement, smells or other LGD) for younger dogs, which equates to boredom. Bored dogs get into trouble! Two together, generally means double trouble!

It is true that two pups do keep each other company, they can burn off excess energy and can play with each other. Some people find this playing with each other redirects them from playing with the livestock. This may be true for some but not all LGD pups. Most sheep cannot survive two large adolescent pups running them down, nipping them or pulling wool. Dogs who play excessively with each other, tend to take longer to mature as this constant play, keeps them in a juvenile mindset for longer. It is hard for the owner to get a handle on two naughty pups without separating them. Which then, defeats the point of acquiring two at the same time.

Some playing between young dogs is normal, the problem is, if it becomes excessive to the point they are only focussed on each other, and not the livestock.

There are situations where having siblings or pups close in age can work. In range operations where there is a lot of work, large numbers of livestock and high predator pressure the young dogs have enough work, space, and stimulation to keep them busy and occupied. Other, older dogs will help loosen a hyper attachment to each other, and a very clear pack hierarchy provides some stability to these adolescents. Having two LGD pups in this situation is not usually a big issue as these dogs can move away from each other and they are not forced to interact constantly with each other. They can become more independent of one another. On larger, or more traditional type of sheep operation there is usually a shepherd who can supervise the dogs for the most part during the day and it is the shepherd who will take control if it appears these young dogs are getting into trouble. On bigger operations, pups can be raised separately if needed, as there are often multiple flocks. I can separate young dogs between the main ewe flock, or with the rams and sometimes with the cattle. I have the space, facilities, and work to be able to raise two LGD effectively.

In traditional shepherding countries, it is common to see multiple pups raised together, more often than not, these pups, when a bit older (3-4 months) are kept chained up or kennelled for the largest portion of the day. They can accompany the shepherd provided they are not a nuisance. Any young pups that misbehave are reprimanded quite harshly.  These pups do not have free range access to each other, or the livestock, only when the shepherd is around.

Young pups are rarely left to just free-range; most shepherds do contain them either by kennelling or chaining.

Dogs on a tether. They are tethered until the shepherd heads out for a day of grazing.

A young female, from a shepherd in Macedonia. Most young dogs are chained up until it is time for them to work.

 Alot of people are correct when saying that LGD can not or should not work alone. Yes, having more than one does add an extra layer of protection for the livestock and the dogs. It allows the dogs to have some rest and if one is injured the flock is not left vulnerable. It takes time (years) to build a good team of dogs, ideally the ages, and experience of the dogs is staggered.  It is good to have more than one dog working on sizeable operations, but on many smaller homesteads, one dog is often enough.

The hardest part with the having two LGD at the same time, is the total lack of predictability in how things will evolve over time. It is like Russian Rolette, you may be lucky, but you may also not be. With two pups, it may work out really well or it may be lots of vet bills, injured dogs and long term separation due to the fighting.
 A few people have success with it, and even more, end up with a train wreck.  The most important considerations should be is their enough work, space, and livestock to raise two pups together? Are there facilities in place to be able to separate the dogs and does the owner have experience/time to manage two pups who might not be showing stellar behaviour around the livestock?

Attitudes toward LGD

A shepherd heading out with his goat herd for grazing in an area in Portugal that has a high wolf population. This dog was provided to him through a wolf conservation organization. They supplied the dog, feed, veterinary care, and ongoing education on using LGD to mitigate conflicts between livestock and wolves.

Attitudes toward LGD
©Louise Liebenberg (2021)
Written for The Shepherds Magazine

It is interesting to see how attitudes vary regarding using livestock guardian dogs (LGD) to protect livestock against predators. For me, it was simple, I am passionate about my ranch and all the animals on it, I appreciate all the wildlife we have, and I like dogs, so I saw the use of LGDs as a benefit, and positive addition to the ranch. However, not everyone shares this view, it is interesting to look at these attitudes and what affects them.

In countries where the use of LGD is still a strong tradition, the attitude toward LGD is positive and there is high acceptance of them by local people. These shepherds understand that LGD and sheep belong together, in many instances the shepherds are proud and positive about their LGD. In many of these countries it is tradition celebrate the use of LGD. In Turkey, a Sivas Kangal festival is held to honour these dogs. In Macedonia, tribute is paid to the Sarplaninac dog by having an image of the dog on a coin and in some countries, where the dogs protect the sheep from wolves, the dogs are adjourned with flowers and paraded through the local villages.

In regions where the wolf has long been extirpated and now making a comeback, the attitudes are less positive. Many ranchers and shepherds I have spoken to, feel that using LGD has been forced upon them due to wolf reintroductions or through “rewilding” programs. They view the use of LGD as tedious requiring additional management practices and a higher cost on their livestock operations. Some shepherds feel that by using LGD, implies acceptance of wolf reintroduction, a “giving in” to government pressure. Some people question why do they need to invest in LGD, and their training, to keep the livestock safe when the government is initiating this reintroduction?  Not using LGD, it is a form of resistance to these Government programs, rather than an actual negative attitude toward LGD.  Some shepherds feel they can “show” how disastrous wolf reintroduction is, by having higher losses from predators by not taking measures to protect their flocks.  It can be used as a lobbying point for higher compensation payouts, both for livestock deaths, as well as the additional costs of using LGD.  Many of these ranchers and shepherds feel that using LGD sends a message of compliance to the reintroduction or protection of wolves and other predator species.

There is no historical tradition for using LGD in the United Kingdom (UK), yet they do have a long history for breeding very talented herding dogs. The border collie is the main “sheepdog” in the UK. There is no tradition to using LGD and many shepherds find the concept of having a very large dog living in among the sheep alarming.   In the UK, most shepherds have a very negative attitude about (pet) dogs in amongst their sheep due to them chasing and worrying them. The shepherds in the UK understand that border collies (or other herding dogs) cannot just be left unattended with sheep, as this can result in death and injury to them. As public walking paths can, and do, criss-cross through farmers fields, a lot of sheep deaths are caused by the general public’s dogs getting off leash and end up chasing, harassing, and killing sheep. It is an offence to allow a dog to worry sheep in the UK and has been drummed into the public’s head that dogs and sheep do not go together free, in a pasture. I have spoken to many British sheep farmers and the idea of a LGD living in with the sheep full time is concerning for them. It would take a lot of education and perhaps many years to have any kind of acceptance for LGD to be working with sheep flocks. A secondary issue would be the potential for conflict between LGD and the public. As walkers do have free access to farmers land, having a LGD free in with the livestock might create issues with the LGD being aggressive towards walkers and their pets. There is no culture in the UK for using LGD, so many shepherds generally have an attitude that LGD cannot and will not work in their situation.  A similar situation exists in Switzerland with public access to walking trails and the potential for conflict between the hikers and LGD. Signposts and videos on how to behave are being promoted by the government to help educate the public.

When I lived in the Netherlands, we had our LGD in with the livestock to primarily protect the sheep against people’s loose pet dogs. We lost over 24 adult sheep in one night, a pair of dogs got free and started “playing” with the sheep. This prompted us to look at using LGD to provide protection for the sheep. At that time, the largest wild predator in the Netherlands were foxes. The biggest predator issue was caused by pet dogs. We were one of the first shepherds to use LGD with our flocks. Getting our first LGD caused quite a stir, as we left our LGD “unattended” in the pasture with the sheep. This was regarded as a form of abandonment by the local authorities. No amount of convincing on our part could persuade them that LGD and sheep need to live in the same pasture. It ended up with us having to take the dog home at night, not an ideal situation. Since those initial years, wolves have drifted back into the Netherlands and some shepherds are now looking to using LGD to protect their flocks from these wolves. Concerns around public opinions, barking and potential aggressiveness will need to be addressed in the Netherlands before LGD will truly be accepted as a tool to mitigate conflict between predators and livestock.

The attitudes towards LGD varies among conservationists, some feel that having large dogs in with the livestock will have a negative affect on non- predator wildlife species, causing disruptions in their behaviour and potential harassment of deer, elk, and other animals.  Some conservationists feel that LGD affect the natural behaviour of predators and that is unacceptable to them. Research has shown that this is true, LGD do affect how predators behave and react around flocks that are guarded by dogs.  Other people have voiced their concerns as to the claim that LGD are an effective “non-lethal” mitigation tool to livestock and predator conflict, as a LGD will kill a coyote or other small predators if they can catch them. Although it is not very common that LGD kill predators, it certainly does happen, most times the dogs interfere with hunting patterns and push predators further away from the flock without the need to actively engage predators in a fight.  The “non-lethal” only applies to the owner not killing the predators, not the dogs! Many conservationists do however see that using LGD is a way to directly reduce conflict between predators and livestock, many are willing to assist in implementing the use of LGD within flocks. Some groups go as far as providing LGD to shepherds, educational programs, and support. In Canada in the province of Saskatchewan, sheep keepers can apply for a grant to purchase a LGD puppy as the Government feels that using LGD is a sound method to help prevent predation.

The acceptance of LGD in traditional shepherding areas is high. This shepherd walks his goats and LGD through the village to their grazing area every day in Portugal. Neighbors do not complain about this as it is accepted by the community.

In many countries including Africa, USA and even traditional LGD regions, the general satisfaction for using LGD is very high. Shepherds value having LGD in their program and do see the benefit of reduced losses, access to grazing areas that were potentially not useable due to predation and of course peace of mind.  The attitude toward LGD can fluctuate due to external factors such as changing polices regarding wildlife, livestock prices, fluctuations in markets and long term, sustained predation of livestock. If the rancher cannot make a living with the livestock due to low market pricing, every additional cost to the operation can be considered too much. Investing in LGD, feeding and vet care are all additional expenses that need to be carried by the livestock operation.
Attitudes towards LGD are also very dependant on the level of effort required to get a sound and reliable dog. People who have had LGD that have pulled wool and bitten the livestock, tend to be a little more negative about the use of LGD.  I have met people where the LGD has caused the death of some of the livestock, and this has a dramatic effect on the positivity towards the dog, and LGD in general. A lady I know, whose LGD pulled wool  and chewed some ears off the lambs has decided not to use LGD, primarily due to the amount of work and the risk it may pose to her livestock and has opted instead  to implement other methods such as fox-lights, electric fencing and night penning to protect her stock.

I believe the majority of ranchers, in a high predator areas, are positive about using LGD. Many wildlife and conservation organizations also see the benefit of finding ways to reduce conflict between predators and livestock.  The biggest challenge might ultimately be convincing the public (who feel that all dogs should “fur-babies”) that using LGD and other working dogs, is not abusive or neglectful.

Two LGD leading the way for the flock to the night corral in northern Alberta. The dogs allow for sheep to graze pastures further away from home that would otherwise not be available for the sheep to use.

Introducing a new LGD puppy

 

The submissive behaviour of the pup is clear. The pup has its ears drawn back, licking behaviour around the mouth, low body posture and low tail. It is a bit harder to see but the eyes of the pup have a soft and friendly expression. The older female is calm, ignoring but her attitude is gentle towards the pup. These are all good signs.

How to introduce a new LGD puppy into an existing pack of LGD

©Louise Liebenberg (2021)
Written for The Shepherds Magazine

I have in a previous article discussed how Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD) and other farm or ranch dogs interact together, in this article I would like to focus more specifically on the introduction of a new LGD, pup, into an existing group of LGD.

Introducing a new LGD puppy between the ages of 8 to 12 weeks, usually goes without too many problems provided, the existing dogs demonstrate normal dog behaviour. Most dogs will willingly accept a new puppy into the pack. Older males will often display a certain level of uninterest after the first introductions. An older female can show a little more disciplinarian types of behaviours. If the puppy irritates her, she will most likely snap, growl, “hold” the muzzle of the pup or roll the puppy. It is often a lot of noise, but little harm is done. The pup will howl and whimper and do as if he is seriously injured. In most cases, it is just his ego that is put out. A younger male is generally the most sociable to a new pup and will often display a lot of enthusiasm and play behaviour towards the pup. Younger males make excellent companions for pups. Females can be a little bitchier than their male counter part, but usually will also engage a little more with the pup.

Some pups can be totally overwhelmed when meeting new dogs. These pups can sometimes show defensive behaviour, growling when another dog approaches them. Care must be taken with these pups that the older dogs do not react negatively towards them because of this.  It is a good idea to let the pup settle in, rest, eat and relax a bit before introducing them to the other ranch dogs.  Waiting a few days might not be a bad idea. These pups often react poorly simply because they are stressed from being separated from littermates and travelling to a new place. The change of livestock can also be a stressor, take things slowly and ensure he or she is placed in with kind ewes so that the pup does not get hurt by the livestock, most working raised pups will be happy to be with the sheep. An indirect way to start introducing the new pup is through scent. The scent of the pup will be on you, so when you feed and interact with the other dogs, they will start “knowing” the pup through its scent being on you. 

It is easier to introduce an 8-week-old pup to the existing pack than it is an 8-month-old. Older pups can be rather rambunctious, and some may react a little more aggressively towards the established dogs. Reading the behaviour of these older pups is essential during introductions. If it looks like he may react aggressively it might be a good idea to first let him meet an opposite-sex dog first. You really want to avoid any form of conflict during the introductions as that could set things off on the wrong foot. Dogs do hold grudges, and if things go wrong initially it might be awfully hard to convince either dog to get along. 

This is a fence line meeting. Both the pup and the adult male are showing relaxed behaviour and they want to hang out together, as both are in the same corner. The male shows some interest, and the pup is calm. I would have no concerns placing these two together at this point.

Observe the body language to judge how acceptive your LGD are of the puppy. If your adult is showing friendly and curious behaviour you would expect to see a relaxed posture, slow tail wagging, a higher tail set, butt sniffing and even some invitation to play, like a play bow. These signs tell you that the adult is happy to meet the pup and it will be okay to let them interact. If the adult dog is showing more hostile behaviour such as ears pulled back, rigid body, tenseness, growling, snarling, stiff legged walking, lip lifting, hackles raised you really want to be careful as anything could trigger this adult to attack the puppy. Take introductions to this adult very slowly and carefully.

 

Behaviours the young pup might display when meeting new adults are generally submissive in nature, low tail wagging, rolling over onto back, some mouth licking, crawling and low to the ground, tail between their legs and urinating. These are good signs as it shows that the pup knows how to respond correctly to strange dogs. He is being submissive and respectful, and every normal adult dog will not harm a pup that is displaying these behaviours.

The safest way to introduce the new pup is to allow them to meet on neutral ground. Dropping the pup off in the pasture the resident LGD lives in, can be a little intrusive. Try introducing them in a field where there are no sheep, toys, or a shelter that the resident dog might feel the need to guard. Some older dogs can be very territorial so meeting at a fence line can result in the older dog wanting to guard his area, similarly, a dog who is tethered can be are very protective of their space. If you do fence line introductions take both to a neutral area for the initial introductions.

Keep the pup (and the resident LGD) on a lead, set the pup down outside the fence and just observe both dog’s behaviour. If both show curiosity, and friendly then bring the pup into the field where they can engage in butt sniffing and other social meeting behaviours. Ensure someone is with you to keep control over the adult, “just in case” things do not go well, this way you can control the interaction. Be aware of your own role in these interactions as you might be the trigger to cause some tension. The resident dog might feel some jealousy towards the pup, or attention seeking behaviour could be a reason for stress. Try and remain very calm and neutral and just observe what is going on.  For the most part these meet and greets do go well.

An adolescent LGD meeting a mature dog in our LGD team. You can clearly see the submissive behaviour of the younger dog to the right, low body posture, tail low, sniffing/licking around the mouth. The older dog has her tail raised, but her body language is not aggressive. The younger dog is showing deference to the older dog.

You can expect the older dog to possibly growl at the pup or show some dominant behaviour toward the pup, however it should not be threatening. An older dog will very quickly place boundaries on a new pup which is not a bad thing. Reading the dog’s behaviour is important to know when the adult dog is being aggressive and can harm the pup, or when it is more corrective and simply warning the pup.
Most dogs work out their social ranking quickly and learn how to interact in a positive way. I have found with my own dogs that they are very tolerant of a pup; however they will reprimand a pup for being overly enthusiastic, irritating, obnoxious and not being mindful of their space and food.

I feel that most of these introductions go well provided both pup and adult dogs are well adjusted and show normal dog behaviour. Small things like taking out food, bones, and toys to reduce the potential of conflict is always a good thing to do.  I have a safe puppy kennel in the pasture so when I am not around to supervise these interactions and to ensure the safety of the young pup, I will place the pup in the kennel. Here the pup can eat, sleep, and still see what is happening in the pasture and be in contact with the other dogs.

While some dogs delight in welcoming a pup into the house, other adult dogs do not open the "welcome wagon". If the adult dog is not friendly, introductions might need to take longer, particularly on neutral ground and on a lead. Sometimes the older dog needs a few more weeks to warm up to the pup and that is okay. If the adult does not accept the pup within a few weeks, while the pup shows good behaviour, the adult dog may have some behavioural issues that could make it hard to have more dogs working with it.

I think the key to good introductions depends a lot on the owner’s capability to read dog body language, to remain calm and to not make a big deal of it. I have expectations of my own dogs to accept my working border collies, any new LGD pups I add into the pack, to accept new livestock or even a different species of livestock. My LGD are expected to behave in a normal and natural way and if they do not, I will step in a reprimand or correct unwanted behaviour.

This is a fence line meeting. Both the pup and the adult male are showing relaxed behaviour and they want to hang out together, as both are in the same corner. The male shows some interest, and the pup is calm. I would have no concerns placing these two together at this point.