The Fighting LGD

This is clear language. It is a warning that need to be respected. The head lower, the “hard” stare, the bared teeth is signing to another dog to back off.  The dogs will escalate his body language if the other dog persists before any fighting will take place. If the other dog turns his head away or moves off, then no fight will ensue. 

The Fighting LGD 

©Louise Liebenberg Feb 2020

Written for The Shepherds Magazine

Dogs live in social groups, as do wolves and most other canids. Living in a group or pack provides stability and protection to each member, it spreads the workload in looking after offspring, hunting together and of course protecting their territory.  These social groups are often family groups comprising of parents, older siblings, younger siblings and some aunts and uncles. To work as a cohesive group these animals need to be able to communicate with each other and this communication is often in the form of subtle body language and sometimes overt displays of physical communication.

The subtlety in this body language and the ability for both dogs to know what is happening reduced the risk of fighting. The older female eating tells the younger male to back off, he is the process of leaving. He is mindful and respectful, and this ensures that no fighting will take place.

It is not in the best interest of a social group living animals to fight with one another causing injuries, disruption and sometimes death to a (pack) member. Livestock guardian dogs (LGD) are most effective if they work and live as a cohesive pack. Against apex predators it is pretty much the only way to ensure the safety of individual dogs and to provide a formidable front to the predators. Unfortunately, pack fighting does occur and the reasons why LGD fight are numerous. Some of the more common reasons for in pack fighting include; resources (resources can be food, toys, attention, space, the livestock, newborn lamb, water bowl etc.), or there could be rivalry (sibling or strange dogs), breeding rights, territory, redirected aggression, disruptions in social structures ( new dog brought into existing pack), in some instances because some dogs display inappropriate social behaviours/neurotic or extreme anxiety, aggressiveness due to pain or injury and underdeveloped or insufficient social communication skills in some dogs. 

In stable packs most disputes can be solved with body language without the need to engage in fighting.  Behaviours such as posturing, submissiveness, lip licking, ear carriage, positioning, tail set, wider eyes, raised hackles, stiff legged walking, growling, displaying the teeth as in growls or “smiles” and numerous other subtle signs are the language of dogs. Understanding this language can ensure that disputes can be settled without injury. In free living dog societies such as our LGD, or stray village dogs, dogs who are involved in aggressive confrontations, generally remove themselves from these situations and leave that group. In wolves these individuals that leave or are ousted from the pack are called dispersers.  This removal from an aggressive situation is sometimes a reason why some LGD roam. They are avoiding being involved in pack fighting and are either evicted or choose to leave the pack.

This is play behaviour, the dogs are play fighting, the paws on each other, mouthing. No escalation as they are playing.

Not all dogs are equally skilled at communication (just like some people),  single dog homes are often a prime example of this, where the singularly raised dog simply  does not read social ques and body language of other dogs. They are often rude and do not respect boundaries of other dogs, this often leads to some harsh disciplining. People often ask how to introduce a puppy to their existing LGD group. If the pup was raised appropriately with its mother and litter mates to an adequate age, it will have learnt enough about dog language to be able to meet new dogs without being injured. Older dogs who are raised with other dogs, will also read and understand a new puppy’s body language and should not harm it. It is unnatural for older dogs to kill or seriously injure pups. Pups may be corrected for being overzealous or not respecting the space or warnings of an older dog, but these corrections are rarely physically injurious. The pup might sound as though he is being killed, but generally only his ego is hurt. Stable tempered dogs will not harm pups and so introductions should not be an issue.

One of our LGD was serious injured during an inpack fight, it nearly cost this dog his life and cost many thousands of dollars in vet care. Today, despite some scarring and a half ear, he is still working.

When pack fighting occurs with LGD it can be serious and highly disruptive to the working ability of the pack. The dogs are so busy fighting each other, that they have no attention for what is going on beyond these pack dynamics.  In a study done by Robin Rigg’s in Georgia he noted that 4 dogs was the ideal number of dogs to have in a pack, larger numbers tended to be more focused ion trying to control and maintain their own pack dynamics rather than being attentive to their job. Similarly, I have found 3 to 4 mature dogs and a younger pup work well as a group. If the group is much bigger, the tensions do rise. This does not mean that it will always end in fighting, but I tend to see more signs of tension, particularly in posturing behaviour. If the dogs have a large area to work, then the tensions are diminished as there is enough space to get away and avoid conflict situations. Controlling things such as feeding time and attention will also reduce tensions among the dogs. 

Although all fighting looks the same, the reasons for the fight are often very different.

When bitches are coming into heat, the tensions escalate with more posturing between the females and claiming behaviour from the males. These fights are related to the changes in hormones and potential status of the bitch. 

The tensions are running a little high in this interchange. The female on the right is in heat, the male is “guarding her”, the younger female on the left is being deferential to the breeding pair.

Fighting over resources can often be easily managed by a shepherd, fighting over food can be resolved by tethering all the dogs separately until they have all eaten, or removal of a bone or toy. Whenever a resource fight occurs, removing the object or changing the management can help to avoid these fights. 

It is important to prevent fights from escalating, a fight over a resource, if not contained or corrected, could become fights over nothing. Dogs are not averse to a good brawl, so once fighting starts, the dogs do not mind keeping it going and continuously looking for a fight.  The reason why they start fighting initially, is not always the reason why they continue to fight. Dogs hold a grudge, so once fighting starts it is usually very hard to prevent future fighting. They do not need “a reason” to fight other than they hold a grudge. It is therefore vital to try and stop fighting before it begins and escalates to the point where the dogs have zero tolerance for each other.

Other fighting that can occur is because an older dog dies and this creates instability within the pack, this chaos within the pack can lead to fighting with new roles needing to be established.  The older dog could have been the “peacekeeper”, maintaining a stable relationship between the other dogs in the group.  Another scenario, a younger, bolder, sexually mature dog might want to challenge the older, dog over breeding rights, or resources. Sometimes, the older dog will acquiesce, and things will settle down. In a situation where the older dog does not defer, serious injury can result. In many shepherds camps it is these old warrior dogs that are  (who are well regarded by the shepherds) that get some added protection in the form of a wolf/spike collar to help prevent serious injuries due to in pack fighting.

This old Macedonian sheepdog wears a spiked collar to protect this dog from in-pack fighting.

In well structured packs, it is also prudent that we do not attempt to micromanage every interaction or disagreement between the dogs. They should be allowed to resolve their own differences through body language and dog communication, provided they are not fighting.  There is a big difference between allowing them to resolve their issues through displays of body language and fighting.

The common advice given out is “let them fight it out, they will sort it out”.   This is poor advice as most dogs do not actually “sort it out” or certainly, do not sort it out long enough to have stability in the pack. It usually ends with one dog being seriously injured or killed. In a good scenario this dog just leaves away pack to avoid been killed.  Once dogs start to fight, it rarely stops.  If nothing is resolved, these fights will escalate in intensity and frequency. It will come to a point where the two dogs can simply not even be in the same proximity to each other. This type of fighting does not resolve itself and ultimately, these dogs need to be permanently separated to avoid serious harm. Most often these types of fights occur when the dogs are similar in age, equivalent in strength, same sex and where the status within the pack is unclear. 

In many regions in Europe, a traditional form of dog fighting (wrestling) takes place with the guardian dogs. It is not the fighting we know of pit bulls in dog fighting rings.  For the shepherds it is to see which dogs display the most dominance (power and influence), bravery and courage. Many “fights” are lost or won by the displays of posturing. It is for many of the shepherds a way to “test” their dogs and breeding selection is based on the outcome of these fights. 

Pasture breeding is another form of selection, where the female is free to choose her mate, and the males fight it out for breeding rights. This is regarded by many shepherds as “natural selection”, the strongest, toughest dog will get breeding rights to the female, therefore producing strong and tough pups for the future. Although this type of breeding is often frowned upon in the modern world, it is how our guardian dogs have been bred and selected for hundreds of generations. 

In many cases, human intervention exacerbates the conflict between two dogs. The things we do could inadvertently cause more fighting.  Having too many dogs in a small area, not enough work for the dogs, or we encourage resource guarding by providing toys and bones or we intervene during a “communication event” (stiff legged walking hackles raised etc.). Sometimes we do nothing, when we need to intervene or intervene in an inappropriate manner thereby escalating tensions or causing redirected aggression. When tensions are high between dogs, we need to be very mindful of our own actions so that we do not trigger the dogs to fight.

There are things we can do to help manage in-pack fighting which includes staggering of ages in the dogs, making opposite sex teams,  spaying or neutering, having the appropriate number of dogs for the operation and livestock, feeding rituals (which can include tethering each dog while they eat or feeding far apart, or even self feeding systems), separation before escalation between dogs that are showing tension towards each other and selecting dogs that work well together. Sometimes, a dog simply does not fit in and is very disruptive to the pack, we have found rehoming such a dog helps keep the pack more stable. We focus on reducing stress and tension and in this keeps fighting to the minimum. 

Calmness and stability in a pack of dogs improves the ability of the dogs to protect the flock.

I think the golden rule is to prevention is better than curing. Stopping all fighting (attacking each other) is easier than managing dogs who are willing and wanting to fight with each other. With each fight, the chances for escalation increases and the ferocity intensifies. Teenage squabbling will often escalate into fighting, so we are quick to separate teenagers and place them in a field with mature adults. Fighting is bad for the stability of the pack; it is bad for your wallet as vets are not cheap and bad for the dogs as they can be seriously hurt or even killed. 

Why do Livestock Guardian Dogs need Fencing?

Regular woven wire fence that can contain the livestock should be good enough to contain the LGD.

Why do Livestock Guardian Dogs need Fencing?

©Louise Liebenberg 2020

Written for The Shepherd Magazine

Livestock Guardian Dogs (LGD) seem to have this reputation for being known to roam. It is true that LGD like to expand their territory and push predators further back. They have no qualms about claiming the neighbors land to guard, as well as your land and all the adjacent land too. On large expansive range operations, what keeps the LGD close to the band of sheep is his bond to the livestock, the shepherd and the other dogs working on that range. In Europe, the shepherds always accompany the sheep while grazing and rarely are the dogs left alone to guard the livestock, as they are here in North America. At night the sheep return to the village or the yard of the shepherd, and the dogs spend the nights at the sheep fold or tethered close by. The dogs travel with the shepherds and their flocks, and are always under the watchful eyes of the shepherds who will call a dog back if it goes to far.

As the shepherds live in the village, and the goats and sheep are housed in barns within the village, the neighbours are more tolerant of the working dogs. Everyday the shepherd leaves the village, collects the goats from the various houses and heads out to the mountains to graze. The village people are tolerant of the dogs and traffic is mindful of the shepherd, his goats and the dogs.

In North America, we have a system that is primarily based on a pastured system, the sheep are contained within some fencing and grazing is rotated through pastures or on large tracts of fenced land, in this way, the sheep control their own grazing and a shepherd does not have to be present to tend to the sheep. To ensure the sheep are safe, even when no one is present, the LGDs are left alone with the sheep within the fenced pastures. It is not the original way shepherds worked with LGD but has become the North American way.  This system of pasturing livestock creates some issues that are often not seen in the more traditional husbandry systems. Although some guardian dogs do roam, even with a shepherd in attendance, it is less common, and these dogs often find their way back to their own band or join up with another band.  Due to the vast areas these sheep graze, the lack of neighbours and roads, if the LGDs do head out and go further away chasing predators, it is not usually a big problem. 

The biggest issues for LGD are those living on smaller pasture-based systems, where roaming or chasing predators away could mean these dogs end up on neighbour’s land, in their yards and on public roads. Neighbors are generally intolerant of having strange dogs on their properties. Dogs that roam  are a nuisance, they poop, urinate against vehicles, cause the neighbors dogs to bark, they could potentially breed the neighbors dogs, kill cats, frighten children, eat the neighbors dog food, rip garbage bags open, bark at the landowners and a multitude of other problems. The roaming LGD is not only a cause of frustration for other people but is also a liability for the owner. A roaming LGD could cause a vehicle accident, could cause stock (not familiar with dogs) to panic and get injured, they can bite or injure someone. Not only is this bad for the LGD as it could end up run over, shot, picked up by animal control or injured, but it reflects poorly on the sheep industry. It gives “ammo” to the animal rights groups on how badly we care for our dogs. A big difference here, in comparison to remote villages in Europe, is that we live in a litigious society, who are generally less tolerant about other people’s animals coming onto their property and causing problems such as barking and roaming. Fellow shepherds in Europe are less like likely to cause you legal issues, the biggest problem could be that your dog gets killed by their own LGDs.

The question often arises, surely if LGDs are properly bonded to the livestock it will not roam?  This is true to a degree, in those vast open ranges, the bonding works well, however, no matter how tight the bond is between dog and livestock, it will generally not prevent a LGD chasing a coyote a fair distance away. It is their job to ward off predators, not just hang out with the livestock. It is part of their duties to “claim” the territory where the sheep graze by patrolling, barking, chasing predators and scent marking. Staying in the vicinity of the flock is part of their job, but it is not the whole job.  Bonding alone, will not prevent an LGD from leaving the property or the sheep flock. Nothing is more fun for an LGD than to actively chase away yipping and howling critters and expanding their own territory. Dogs do not have the same sense of space as we do, our boundaries and fences are  not necessarily boundaries a LGD would respect.

The solution to this roaming issue is simple; you either go and shepherd the sheep during the hours they graze and tether or kennel the LGD at night when the sheep are back in the fold, or you can move and run a range operation where roaming LGD are not a big problem  or you might have to fence your property to prevent the LGD from leaving your land. 

This Shepherd in Portugal keeps an eye on the dog and goats while grazing. It is the bond between the shepherd, the goats and the dog that keeps the dog from roaming away.

Many LGDs are (unfortunately) not simply contained, what drives them to want to leave are primal instincts and those are powerful. We also know that LGDs seem to have an uncanny ability to find and utilize every weakness in your fence. If you think you have a well contained area, wait until you add an LGD to show you every low spot, crawl space and gap in the fence. LGDs have Houdini like qualities, can shape shift and can clear just about any obstacle. Some people build veritable prisons to contain their LGDs,  others employ the “fence in front of a fence” system, and others throw everything they have to keep their dog contained, woven wire fences, hotwires, buried in the ground anti-dig fences, coyote rollers on gates and to finish it off an invisible fence.

The doubters will point out if you need fencing this good to contain the dog, then surely it will keep the predators out and one would not even need a dog. Yes, that might be true, but if I look at enclosures in zoos to keep wolves in, then I do not doubt that most fences found on ranches, are simply not predator proof enough. The fence on most ranchers are to keep the livestock in, they are not built to keep predators out.

We have good fences, (bison woven wire fence with hot-wires over top) and, we have bears, wolves, coyotes, lynx, cougars and all the ungulates and moose all within our fenced areas. The fences do not keep the wildlife out but are good enough to keep our livestock and LGD in.

I think the biggest “trick” to keeping the livestock guardian dog contained is to ensure it is happy to want to live with the livestock (bonded and content), that its social needs are met either with contact from humans or other pack members, possibly spay and neutering to reduce any hormonal desires to find  a mate and some fence training. Teaching the pup to respect boundaries and fences is easier done than trying to break the habit of roaming. Roaming is a self rewarding behaviour, and those behaviours are generally very hard to stop. Every time the dog gets to leave, reinforces his own desire to go.

I do not think that fences have to be excessive, if it is good enough (except for barb wire strands) to contain the livestock, the fence should be sufficient to contain the dog. I do like to have a starter pasture that is very well fenced that I can use as my teaching pasture. I use this area to bond the pups to the livestock, and the pup learns early on that fences and boundaries need to be respected. If a pup does find its way out of the pasture, we make the experience outside the pasture quite unpleasant and the pup is returned to the pasture directly. We always make time to ensure that the training field fences are excellent. If we notice a pup has a desire to leave, we will rig up a learning situation. If the pup likes to dig, we will run a strand of hot-wire of on the outside of the fence so if he is trying to crawl under, he will get zapped. If he is a climber an offset hot-wire over top will help with that. We make sure we never talk to the pup over the fence, as this encourages the pup to stand up against the fence. We teach them about electric sheep nets as much of our summer grazing for the sheep are in nets. Most importantly, we spend time to ensure the pup is happy and content being where he is. We will have a mature companion dog in this area, the pup is in with kind livestock, he has a nice place to sleep and eat without the livestock bullying the pup, and we spend a fair amount of time with the pup in that area. In this way his needs are met, food, shelter and companionship (livestock, another dog and human).

Macedonia, when the sheep are back in the village, after a day of grazing, the LGDs are tethered for the night. A few pups or an older dog, may be a laying in the yard loose.

What matters more breed or breeder?

This young guardian dog is being raised with and bonded to some heifers, his job in the future will involve working with cattle.

What matters more breed or breeder?

©Louise Liebenberg 2019

Written for: The Shepherds Magazine

By the time you receive this issue of The Shepherds Magazine the new year will be underway. I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a healthy and prosperous new year! 

The USDA, under the guidance of Julie Young and Daniel Kinka recently did a study to compare livestock guardian dog (LGD) breeds, they found that all the LGD breeds were more similar, than different in how they respond to threats. This is a logical conclusion, bearing in mind that all livestock guardian dogs have the same job, and that is to protect the livestock from predators. This job description remains the same throughout all the different countries and all the different breeds. With well over 30 different livestock guardian dog breeds who are all bred to protect livestock from large predators, the expectation would be, that these breeds should exhibit similar traits despite differences in looks and type.

 Livestock guardian dogs do not only share similar working traits (high nurturing qualities that allows them to bond to the livestock, high protectiveness, vigilant, independent, discerning, loyal, canine aggressive) but also many phenotypical traits which are directly related to their effectiveness to do their job. LGD are large dogs, most are double coated (a few exceptions), many have thick loose skin, all have hanging ears, most have “normal” proportions and angulation, strong, large teeth in a correct configuration even head proportions are similar. Coat types (corded, rough and shorter coated) and colours do vary among the breeds.  

These traits are what you can generally expect when looking for a livestock guardian dog breed. When bred for this job, these traits become hardwired into the DNA of the dogs. You can count on a certain amount of predictability of these traits. Predictability is what differentiates a mutt from a purebred (not, a registered dog) dog. Careful breeding and selection (culling) is what the shepherds did to have a breed suitable and capable of doing its job. Predictability in traits reduces the risk, and the time required for a dog to learn to do a specific job.  An example would be that a greyhound, they have been bred and selected for speed, when you breed a greyhound to another greyhound, you know how it will look and it will have speed. That is predictability in traits. It is similar for all the various groups of dogs, herding dogs’ herd, hounds have good noses and scenting abilities. If you need a herding dog, your success will greatly improve if you select a herding breed to start with. 

Therefore, the advice is given to new people looking for an LGD pup to stay within the LGD breeds or crosses only between LGD breeds. Once you add in breeds such as border collie or Labrador, the genetic waters get muddied, certain traits can conflict with others resulting in unpredictable behaviour. Imagine buying a Border Collie x Great Pyrenees, you hope to have a livestock guardian dog, but instead you get a very large, stubborn, white herding dog that could not care at all about the coyotes but wants to spend its entire life herding the livestock around. 

Alternatively, you could win the lottery and maybe that cross will be what you want, but we all know that the chance of winning the lottery is slim! Having a cross like this is like playing Russian Roulette with your livestock, you could be lucky, but most of the time you are not.

So, this brings me to the most common question asked regarding LGD: “What breed of LGD should I get?” (This question is often followed with parameters such as no roaming, little barking, preferably really friendly with other dogs, good with strangers).

Personally,  I do not think that the breed itself is what will determine the most success on your operation, I think it has more to do with the breeder and their ability to help and guide you.

A good breeder will be able to tell you about their operation and help you decide if what they breed and select for, will be suited for your operation. They will guide you in your decision making and be willing to answer your questions. The right breeder will be able to tell you about the working ability of their dogs, will share the challenges of raising their dogs and can outline what you can expect from a dog bred by them. They will have information on possible genetic health issues and the health status of their dogs and can explain what they value in their breeding dogs. The breeder should be willing to offer mentor-ship and support to you, to ensure the pup they bred will be successful on your operation. The breeder should be your first go to for questions regarding raising and training your LGD. The breeder will inform you about vaccinations and de-worming your pup will have, as well as advise you what future veterinary care may be needed.  The breeder should be able to give you important information regarding the temperament of the parents and perhaps other siblings and family members, which could make your decision easier.

It really amazes me when people contact me to ask some basic questions regarding their pup, questions I feel, should be answered by their breeder. In many cases these people do not even know the name of their breeder. When you are willing to pay good money for dog that is supposed to protect your livelihood, you should invest that money into a breeder who will provide you with support. 

I regard using LGDs as an investment in your ranch and security for your livestock, it is in your own best interests to get the best you can.

Even though each breed is unique, their basic traits are similar, finding the right breed for your operation should certainly include finding the right breeder too. Personal preferences and some parameters will narrow down the options. 

Some ranchers do not like dealing with long coated breeds, so breed selection might be narrowed down to the shorter coated breeds such as the Kangal, Akbash, Anatolian or Central Asian Ovcharka. Some, people prefer the white dogs, this will also narrow down your breed choice.  People who are dealing with larger predators might want breeds who are perhaps a little higher on the protectiveness/aggressive side, so breeds such as the Sarplaninac, Kangals or Ovcharkas might be what you need. If you run a large range operation, then dogs who are more athletic in their conformation might be a good criterion to select for. 

All LGD bark, all LGD like to expand their territory so those might not be reliable parameters to select an LGD on.

For many people, availability is an issue, you might decide the perfect breed for you is Koochi, but finding a reliable breeder, who has working dogs that fit your operation might be a bigger challenge than anticipated. Importing brings its own risks; breeder support becomes more complicated, costs generally skyrocket, and then of course you have scammers, peddlers and false advertising to navigate in a foreign language. Plenty of breeders in foreign countries who advertise “working” LGD, but working can be relative, for some it may be dog fighting, or shows, or the fact that the breed itself is classified as a LGD breed, but over the past 5 generations none of the breeding dogs have actually seen a sheep.

My advice would be for finding the right LGD for your operation is to review some of these questions:

What do I need? An LGD in with stock to protect from predators or a general farm dog?

How big is the threat of predators and what predators am I dealing with?

What breeds am I attracted to and why?  (read about the breeds, do some research, ask people their opinions, speak to breed clubs, speak to producers who have these breeds)

Are their neighbors who have similar operations to mine and how are their dogs? Go for a visit and talk dogs and livestock.

Speak to breeders and ask questions that are important to your operation and what you want in a dog.

Is health testing important to you, then ask about that.

Ask about temperament, problems, good things, predator losses, how they would describe their dogs working abilities?

Pay attention to “red flags”; if a breeder cannot spell the breed name correctly, beware. No livestock, but a good story, probably not what you want. More dogs than livestock? Accidental litter, are you sure the daddy is who they say it is? When the breed standard says a breed can only be a certain colour and you see a litter with odd colours or markings, or a questionable size, or erect ears then take a deep breath and think hard if this is what you think it is. It is amazing how many “throwback” or rare pups are out there,  when breeders start spinning the throwback story to a long lost line and colours that normally are not found in a certain breed, then it is time to pause.

My advise would be look for the breeder who operates a livestock operation similar to yours, see the dogs working, ask about mentorship and chose the breeder who has your best interests at heart. I think the breeder is perhaps more important than the breed, in being successful in raising your LGD.

A good breeder will be able to give you information on the parents of a pup and also assist a new LGD owner with raising and training the pup.