What matters more breed or breeder?

This young guardian dog is being raised with and bonded to some heifers, his job in the future will involve working with cattle.

What matters more breed or breeder?

©Louise Liebenberg 2019

Written for: The Shepherds Magazine

By the time you receive this issue of The Shepherds Magazine the new year will be underway. I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a healthy and prosperous new year! 

The USDA, under the guidance of Julie Young and Daniel Kinka recently did a study to compare livestock guardian dog (LGD) breeds, they found that all the LGD breeds were more similar, than different in how they respond to threats. This is a logical conclusion, bearing in mind that all livestock guardian dogs have the same job, and that is to protect the livestock from predators. This job description remains the same throughout all the different countries and all the different breeds. With well over 30 different livestock guardian dog breeds who are all bred to protect livestock from large predators, the expectation would be, that these breeds should exhibit similar traits despite differences in looks and type.

 Livestock guardian dogs do not only share similar working traits (high nurturing qualities that allows them to bond to the livestock, high protectiveness, vigilant, independent, discerning, loyal, canine aggressive) but also many phenotypical traits which are directly related to their effectiveness to do their job. LGD are large dogs, most are double coated (a few exceptions), many have thick loose skin, all have hanging ears, most have “normal” proportions and angulation, strong, large teeth in a correct configuration even head proportions are similar. Coat types (corded, rough and shorter coated) and colours do vary among the breeds.  

These traits are what you can generally expect when looking for a livestock guardian dog breed. When bred for this job, these traits become hardwired into the DNA of the dogs. You can count on a certain amount of predictability of these traits. Predictability is what differentiates a mutt from a purebred (not, a registered dog) dog. Careful breeding and selection (culling) is what the shepherds did to have a breed suitable and capable of doing its job. Predictability in traits reduces the risk, and the time required for a dog to learn to do a specific job.  An example would be that a greyhound, they have been bred and selected for speed, when you breed a greyhound to another greyhound, you know how it will look and it will have speed. That is predictability in traits. It is similar for all the various groups of dogs, herding dogs’ herd, hounds have good noses and scenting abilities. If you need a herding dog, your success will greatly improve if you select a herding breed to start with. 

Therefore, the advice is given to new people looking for an LGD pup to stay within the LGD breeds or crosses only between LGD breeds. Once you add in breeds such as border collie or Labrador, the genetic waters get muddied, certain traits can conflict with others resulting in unpredictable behaviour. Imagine buying a Border Collie x Great Pyrenees, you hope to have a livestock guardian dog, but instead you get a very large, stubborn, white herding dog that could not care at all about the coyotes but wants to spend its entire life herding the livestock around. 

Alternatively, you could win the lottery and maybe that cross will be what you want, but we all know that the chance of winning the lottery is slim! Having a cross like this is like playing Russian Roulette with your livestock, you could be lucky, but most of the time you are not.

So, this brings me to the most common question asked regarding LGD: “What breed of LGD should I get?” (This question is often followed with parameters such as no roaming, little barking, preferably really friendly with other dogs, good with strangers).

Personally,  I do not think that the breed itself is what will determine the most success on your operation, I think it has more to do with the breeder and their ability to help and guide you.

A good breeder will be able to tell you about their operation and help you decide if what they breed and select for, will be suited for your operation. They will guide you in your decision making and be willing to answer your questions. The right breeder will be able to tell you about the working ability of their dogs, will share the challenges of raising their dogs and can outline what you can expect from a dog bred by them. They will have information on possible genetic health issues and the health status of their dogs and can explain what they value in their breeding dogs. The breeder should be willing to offer mentor-ship and support to you, to ensure the pup they bred will be successful on your operation. The breeder should be your first go to for questions regarding raising and training your LGD. The breeder will inform you about vaccinations and de-worming your pup will have, as well as advise you what future veterinary care may be needed.  The breeder should be able to give you important information regarding the temperament of the parents and perhaps other siblings and family members, which could make your decision easier.

It really amazes me when people contact me to ask some basic questions regarding their pup, questions I feel, should be answered by their breeder. In many cases these people do not even know the name of their breeder. When you are willing to pay good money for dog that is supposed to protect your livelihood, you should invest that money into a breeder who will provide you with support. 

I regard using LGDs as an investment in your ranch and security for your livestock, it is in your own best interests to get the best you can.

Even though each breed is unique, their basic traits are similar, finding the right breed for your operation should certainly include finding the right breeder too. Personal preferences and some parameters will narrow down the options. 

Some ranchers do not like dealing with long coated breeds, so breed selection might be narrowed down to the shorter coated breeds such as the Kangal, Akbash, Anatolian or Central Asian Ovcharka. Some, people prefer the white dogs, this will also narrow down your breed choice.  People who are dealing with larger predators might want breeds who are perhaps a little higher on the protectiveness/aggressive side, so breeds such as the Sarplaninac, Kangals or Ovcharkas might be what you need. If you run a large range operation, then dogs who are more athletic in their conformation might be a good criterion to select for. 

All LGD bark, all LGD like to expand their territory so those might not be reliable parameters to select an LGD on.

For many people, availability is an issue, you might decide the perfect breed for you is Koochi, but finding a reliable breeder, who has working dogs that fit your operation might be a bigger challenge than anticipated. Importing brings its own risks; breeder support becomes more complicated, costs generally skyrocket, and then of course you have scammers, peddlers and false advertising to navigate in a foreign language. Plenty of breeders in foreign countries who advertise “working” LGD, but working can be relative, for some it may be dog fighting, or shows, or the fact that the breed itself is classified as a LGD breed, but over the past 5 generations none of the breeding dogs have actually seen a sheep.

My advice would be for finding the right LGD for your operation is to review some of these questions:

What do I need? An LGD in with stock to protect from predators or a general farm dog?

How big is the threat of predators and what predators am I dealing with?

What breeds am I attracted to and why?  (read about the breeds, do some research, ask people their opinions, speak to breed clubs, speak to producers who have these breeds)

Are their neighbors who have similar operations to mine and how are their dogs? Go for a visit and talk dogs and livestock.

Speak to breeders and ask questions that are important to your operation and what you want in a dog.

Is health testing important to you, then ask about that.

Ask about temperament, problems, good things, predator losses, how they would describe their dogs working abilities?

Pay attention to “red flags”; if a breeder cannot spell the breed name correctly, beware. No livestock, but a good story, probably not what you want. More dogs than livestock? Accidental litter, are you sure the daddy is who they say it is? When the breed standard says a breed can only be a certain colour and you see a litter with odd colours or markings, or a questionable size, or erect ears then take a deep breath and think hard if this is what you think it is. It is amazing how many “throwback” or rare pups are out there,  when breeders start spinning the throwback story to a long lost line and colours that normally are not found in a certain breed, then it is time to pause.

My advise would be look for the breeder who operates a livestock operation similar to yours, see the dogs working, ask about mentorship and chose the breeder who has your best interests at heart. I think the breeder is perhaps more important than the breed, in being successful in raising your LGD.

A good breeder will be able to give you information on the parents of a pup and also assist a new LGD owner with raising and training the pup.

Seasonality Issues

An early snow fall means the sheep need to come into the winter feeding areas, the LGD need some time to adjust to the new routine, smaller pastures and the breeding season for the sheep.

Seasonality Issues
©Louise Liebenberg 2019

This article was written for the The Shepherds Magazine

I hear this  question more often than what one would believe; how can I prevent my dog from “humping the sheep”? Recently, the question was asked how can I prevent my goat buck from “humping” the livestock guardian dog (LGD)? As comical as it sounds, these questions arise regularly and I see a pattern in the time of the year that certain issues seem to be more prominent than other times.

Although no statistical claims can be made regarding this, I do see a seasonal pattern with some of the issues we see with LGDs. Understanding the triggers to bad behaviour, could make finding the solution to the problem a little easier.

Seasonality issues are often related to changes in livestock husbandry. Fall time is usually a big change in livestock management. After the long warm days of summer pasturing, fall comes with cooler temperatures. In colder climates the sheep come off pasture, lambs are weaned, rams or bucks are introduced for breeding and routines change. The ewes start to cycle as the days become shorter and colder.  Livestock guardian dogs generally like calm and order, big changes often require an adjustment period for the dog, and some dogs tend to show some disruptive and odd behaviours when things change. 

Our dogs spend all winter and spring with our cattle, during the summer the cattle go onto summer pasture. The dogs only see the cows again when the first snow starts to fly, and we bring the cows and calves home for the winter. It will usually take a few weeks for them to quit barking at the cows and the dogs will even attempt to chase them away from the sheep. I will correct the dogs for doing this, but also know that it is a temporary adjustment and soon the dogs will settle down. With a younger dog, he could become a little more fanatic in chasing and barking at the cows, unless dealt with, it could escalate to seriously problematic behaviour. A younger dog might be placed in a smaller pasture so I can better monitor what he is doing and can correct his behaviour or will be in an adjoining pasture until he settles down. A little dog management goes along way to prevent an escalation of bad behaviour.

This young LGD was getting a little too enthusiastic with chasing the cows after they returned off summer pasture. Some time in a smaller pen to get reacquainted with each other solved that issue.

Dogs are not immune to the hormonal changes in the livestock, they smell the testosterone coursing through the veins of the rams, and everyone can smell a Billy goat in the rut!  The ewes are highly hormonal, and some male dogs can be triggered by this smell. They will attempt to mount the ewe; some might lick the ewe’s vulva excessively, some will attempt to “hold” an ewe in place by holding it down with its paws or teeth, some wool plucking can occur too. All these behaviours need correcting and monitoring. In some instances, neutering the male will have a positive effect on reducing this behaviour however, the most important point is to make the LGD know it is unacceptable behaviour. Timely corrections go a long way to putting an end to bad behaviour, many dogs do mature out of this behaviour once they are more accustomed the cycle of the sheep.

For some dogs, the introduction of a new buck or ram can lead to him chasing it away aggressively, attacking the new ram or constantly keeping it away from the ewes. A younger dog might perceive the new ram as a threat and these new sheep do not belong here. Some bucks can be quite aggressive or obstinate towards the dogs and this can cause some problems with the LGD.  A belligerent ram and a playful dog might start a game of headbutting, play bowing, nipping and running off, this pattern can eventually become quite aggressive where the dog and ram attack each other. Initially, it looks like fun and games but, it can become a serious problem. 

A young dog could benefit from time in the buck or ram pen before the introduction of the rams into the flock, this way the dog can get to know the “new” animals and become accustomed to the smell and behaviour of the rams before they are mixed into the flock. These introductions are important when new breeding animals are introduced to the herd.  It might make the transitions a little easier for the rams and LGD.

The young male LGD spends time in with the rams to ensure that when the rams join the ewes at breeding time he knows them and will not be too concerned about their introduction into the flock.

Roaming can be another issue in the fall, some dogs might want to head back out to the summer grazing pastures, other might feel “bored” coming into a smaller winter feeding pen, the confinement and perhaps less active work can lead to some dogs to start roaming.

Going back to my initial example, if a goat buck is humping the dog, you could see an escalation in aggressive behaviour on the part of the dog, he might retaliate with a bite to the goat, growling and generally trying to protect his space and body. Some bucks can be relentless, and the dog certainly does not have to be abused by the buck. I am one of those LGD people that feels that a dog does not have to tolerate being jumped on, pushed away from its food and certainly not being mounted by a randy goat. My dogs can protect their space, food and body. However, this protection of their space and body does have restrictions, it may protect itself within reason and it certainly may not escalate its protective behaviour. A growl, a snap and a nip are acceptable but biting and ripping is not. He can snap at the goats and chase them away from his food but may not pursue the animal over an extended distance.  As many young dogs do not know what I regard as “reasonable”, I will often just watch the dog, if he chases or bites a sheep too harshly while protecting himself,  I will correct him or will give him a place to retreat to where the sheep or goats cannot get in. I sometimes will feed the dogs in a corner of the pasture that I have closed off with cattle panels where the dog can crawl under to go and eat and sleep in peace.

 Similarly, a dog that is humping the livestock also needs to be corrected, of course the sheep or goat can butt or stomp, but often the dog is too powerful and the animal cannot protect itself, this is where we need to step in and correct the behaviour. I am a firm believer in each species living together and yet having respect for personal space. The dog should not be “hugging” (holding the livestock between its paws), holding it with its teeth or chewing the livestock. Sexual mounting falls into the unacceptable behaviour patterns!

Although no excuse for bad behaviour, it is always good to consider what could be the reason for a change in the LGD’s behaviour. Particularly, when the dog has been good all summer and suddenly, his behaviour becomes concerning. Question what changed, what could have instigated the change in behaviour, what factors need to be considered? When you consider these questions, solutions are often easily found.

Thoughts and Concerns

I have been wanting to write this post for a long time, but it is always hard to gather my thoughts on this topic. Generally, I do not write much about people, I like to keep my stuff focused on the dogs and their behavior. However, lately some things have started to concern me, and I felt more and more the need to write some of this down. In part, as a cautionary tale, in part to share some of my concerns with you and of course to reflect on all things Sarplaninac.

As a breeder and a long time lover of the Sarplaninac breed, I have seen a trend over time that rather concerns me. When we moved to Alberta from Europe 11 years ago, we brought our Sarplaninac dogs with us. We raised sheep in Europe and used our dogs for livestock guardian dog work. It was back then, in 1992 very hard to find registered, working Sarplaninac dogs. Even then, despite breeders claims that they would work out because it is “in their blood”, in their line and simply because the breed standard says they are an LGD breed.  It was very hit and miss, we had some great dogs and others who were totally unreliable.

It became very apparent to me that not all Sarplaninac are created equally regarding LGD work. Looking at the history of the breed one can see how the breed evolved from a mountain working dog, tending to the flocks to the modern urban dog.  It did not have the fancy name “Sarplaninac” back then and was simply called a "sheepdog". The breed underwent multiple name changes and splits after recognition in the FCI.   The breed, and breeding, diverged and this split divided the breed (informally) into different jobs; the livestock guardian dog, the military dog and the urban/show/pet dog.

The Serbian army and their Sarplaninac dogs became quite famous. Breeding was controlled in the military kennels. The selection criteria were stringent, the military wanted one and the same type of dog, specific weight, size and colour. All peas in a pod.  Rumor has it, that to create a more biddable dog some other breeds were added into the original mountain dogs, including German Shepherd and Caucasian Ovcharka. Looking through these military pedigrees it is clear to see that line breeding and inbreeding was rife. It is also apparent that accuracy in registration was not always a high priority. Sometimes a male with a certain number would later appear as a female (with the same number) in another pedigree. Breeding litter mates was common, and the genetic diversity was low (high COI). The selection for the ideal military dog was based primarily on its suitability to do its job as a patrol dog, protection of structures and installations and a willingness to be human aggressive. A far cry of what was needed as an LGD. Personally, I have no issues with this type of dog been bred, IMO it is a different dog/breed to the mountain working sheepdog, however they do share a common name, and that is part of the problem in finding the dogs that can do their original LGD job. 

After the FCI recognised the breed and it went through multiple name changes, dog showing was the next best thing. Here selection was focussed solely on phenotypical properties. The dog had to match the breed standard in order to win ribbons. The standard is of course open to interpretation and an ideal vision is not always shared. It is like fashion; it is ever changing. Where, many years ago the steel gray dogs were regarded as the ideal, any other colour (despite the breed standard being quite diverse regarding colour) was dismissed.   In some of the breed standards “bigger is better”, in others very specific size parameters are laid out. Sadly, what we are seeing is a shift from the moderate working dog to oversized, “soggy” type of dogs. When people are proud that their dogs are larger than a Caucasian Ovcharka or heavier than 160lbs, then that is a reason to be concerned for the well being of the breed.

Breed Standards are subject to change, misinterpretation and, sometimes silly ideals. Some points slip into these standards that have no bearing on functionality and can be detrimental to a working breed.  That Sarplaninac should be double coated is a given, but to then state; “At the withers the hair should measure between 10 and12 cm; it should not be shorter than 7 cm” gives show breeders a singular focal point. Instead of the coat being efficient, waterproof, matt proof, protective, breeders selected for length only, it became too long, soft and flowy. Totally impractical and certainly not ideal for a working dog.  Similarly, the small white marking on the chest and toes, becomes a focal point for many breeders. They are proud that their dog has no white on its toes, but these same breeders do not mind if that same dog is cow hocked or has an unstable temperament! Instead of looking for a functional build that would suit the original LGD job, extremes become the focus, particularly in the show world.

More recently, we see more variation in colour in the show ring, which is good to keep the diversity within the breed. The latest trend now seems to be the focus on the “almond shaped eyes” and the lack of stop (supposedly wolf like) in show dogs. To the point, where some dogs look like they have malformed heads.

In the show ring the men parade around, and hopefully their dog will try to attack the other dog in the ring, thus showing “character”. These aggressive stand offs, the agitating of the dogs and sometimes even the dog fighting is proudly displayed on Facebook pages!  Once again, the selection is based on non-working sheepdog traits. 

I understand why the shepherds do not even want to call their dogs “Sarplaninac”, it is an insult to their working dogs. In their opinion, Sarplaninac are the ribbon chasing dogs and not the original working dogs. The shepherds want no part of FCI registration as they know it will ruin their dogs.  

Breeding and importing

When I brought our original dogs with us to Canada, most people here had not even heard about the breed.  Those they did, took the time to learn about them and to understand their nature. Sadly, the same as what has happened to the good working great Pyrenees, is now happening to the Sarplaninac breed. Weekly, one can find crosses of “sarplanic” dogs (these breeders do not even know how to spell the breed they are selling puppies of) with German Shepherd, maremma, Great Pyrenees, Anatolian and a variety of other breeds. Of course, the owners of these dogs want to cash in on the rare breed, so the “sarplanic” are advertised and often the other part of the cross is rarely mentioned. Some are sold as purebred, despite them being crossed.  More and more they start popping up in shelters and with greater regularity I am called to ask if I can help rehome one. One breeder pumps out litter after litter and any pups not sold are headed to the shelter. Many are sold into inappropriate homes, in towns and apartments.  The breed is getting watered down with poor breeding, no selection and unscrupulous breeders wanting a cash cow. Sadly, buyers are fooled into believing they have something special, and many even think they are getting a purebred. They pay upwards of $800 for these crosses. Many of these breeders advertise them as LGD, but they themselves do not own livestock. It makes my toes curl. The same breeders will also happily refer their buyers to me to help them out when these dogs have issues.

It disheartens me to hear how many people want to buy a pup from a good breeder just to want to cross breed it again. I know I will simply not sell a pup into such a situation. I love the breed, it is perfect as it is, is does not need to be crossbred. It is bad for the breed and will ultimately be the demise of the breed.  I will decline to sell to people who intend to cross breed, I do this out of respect for my own breeding program, the careful selection I do and for the breed itself.

This of course leaves some people angry. So angry, that I am unwilling to sell them a pup that they then set out to try and ruin me. I have had people threaten to ruin my reputation, put me out of business( the dogs is not my business) and one person even went so far as to send me a handwritten letter threatening me and our ranch.  I am not sure why people feel the need to threaten me, it just highlights to me even more that it is a good thing I never sold them a pup. If they have this kind of mentality, then I am happy to have made the decision to not sell to them.

For some people, the next step they undertake is to then import. It is easy to find willing breeders who tout championship lineage and who will tell you exactly what you want to hear. These Balkan breeders can be easily found on the internet and post on all the Sarplaninac and livestock guardian dog pages. They have discovered that they can easily sell to “rich Americans”. They are adept at smooth talking and they will happily sell you an LGD pup, despite their lines not been selected for LGD work.

They will often show photos of their dog with a sheep just to pretend to you that they are working. The go on about their amazing Championship dogs, best in Macedonia, top quality and will make an easy sell this way. They will arrange shipping and you think you have hit the jackpot in breeders and dogs.

Sadly, these breeders are often nothing more than glorified puppy mills. The bitches are bred back to back, whelp on concrete and absolutely no care is given where these pups end up as long as a sale is made.  I have known multiple people who have imported dogs from these breeders who have ended up with dead and maimed stock, dogs who have unreliable temperaments and some with some glaring faults. These breeders are unable to provide any support for when things go wrong with the livestock as they live in the middle of a city and do not have any livestock. Quite frankly they do not even care, they have your money and now it is your problem.

The often lie about things such as health testing and do not guarantee anything, so when you your pup has a problem, there is no recourse. In some instances, these breeders will use the buyer to promote their dog dealing business. If you post a nice picture of your dog and someone comments, these breeders then go and stalk that person and try to sell them a dog. I have even had one, post his pups on a post of my pups. This is plain rude. 

Good breeders support and help other good breeders provided they share a similar vision on the dogs. I will happily refer people looking for a pup to a good breeder. If their buyers need help, I will try to assist them. These Balkan breeders do not do this, they will try and sell their pups through you.  They manipulate and use you for their advantage.

Sadly, many of the dogs imported come from the same few breeders so, when these new buyers are all excited about introducing new genetics into Northern America, often, there are plenty of dogs with these lines already. 

When people ask me my opinion on a certain breeder, and I gently recommend looking elsewhere for a pup, then I am labelled as being jealous, or angry that I did not make a sale. I am not sure why they ask my opinion because ultimately, they will still buy a pup from that breeder. I am however always very sad when I see someone importing a pup from such a breeder and then a few years later you hear of the dogs mauling the livestock or the person been taken advantage of. 

I am not the Sarplaninac police and people can do what ever they want. Ultimately, it is a transaction between that buyer and that breeder. However, it is very much a buyer beware situation.

 Another thing that totally rubs me the wrong way is the secretive, underhand dealings. A lady on the East side (New England Region) of the USA, advertises her purebred Sarplaninac pups (they are crosses, depending on which advertisement you see), she “steals” photos of other people to make her own adverts. She uses a false name and false Facebook page. All very shady. 

Then, you have the puppy dealers, the ones who wholesale import 3 or 4 pups from a litter, get a little “cut” on the side for their business. It is plain and simple dog dealing. This of course leaves the future buyer in no-mans land. When they have problems or issues, who is responsible, the dealer, the seller?

Another category of dog breeders are the covert mis-truth tellers and "embellishers", the ones that make up stories, create a almost “new name” for the breed, the stories are so believable that the mis-truths are hidden in plain sight.

And, then some days I am just gobsmacked at the Facebook responses I sometimes get:

Luckily for me, I can handle it, I am not concerned whether they think I know how to raise a LGD or not. But, what does concern me is when this person has had to re-home a Anatolian because they could not handle it and, that they intend to cross breed their Great Pyrenees and Anatolian females to a sarplaninac male,

I run a Canadian Sarplaninac page, to be able to join some questions need to be answered first. This page is specific for purebred and registered Sarplaninac dogs, so one of the questions is who is the breeder of your dog? The number of people who either do not reply or cannot remember is astounding. How can you not know the breeders name? Surely, the breeder gave you the registration certificate, a vet document, you paid them so there must be a name somewhere.  Once again, if you are paying good money for a pup ($800 for a cross to $1500) then surely it is in the buyers’ best interest to know the name of the breeder? How can you ask for advise, or get more information about that line, or if your dog has health issues how will you contact them? Why the secretiveness? Surely, you should be proud to know your breeder and have a pup from that line. 

It is all very disheartening and I often wonder where this will go?

 One thing I know for sure, is that I will do what I feel is right. I will look for working dogs, select my breeding dogs on multiple criteria, I will screen the owners as best I can and will provide support to those people. Most importantly, I will do my best to help protect this breed that is so dear to my heart.  I cannot control what others do, and I do not want to either, I can only control what I do. I am not the perfect breeder, I have had an accidental breeding, my dogs are not perfect either and I know some owners have had issues with their dogs, I do however offer as much help, support, guidance and mentor-ship for these people. 

What I do know, is that I will always support and focus on the LGD working sarplaninac. That is “my” thing. If ribbon chasing is yours, then great. If you love the military type dog, also great.  However, please do not delude the LGD folks whose livelihood, and their livestock’s lives depend on good working dogs that your show champion or military bred sarplaninac is an LGD.  I know my dogs might not conform to the ideal breed standard when it comes to non-working qualities; a bit more white, a brindle colour, hair that is shorter than 8 cm etc. What I do care about is; coat quality, correct conformation, correct weight, agility, strength in bone and muscle structure, movement and the properties that allow the dog to do the job it was bred to do. Working temperament is important, the Sarplaninac should not be described as a sweet, soft, gentle, docile dog. His job is to ward off bears and wolves, he should be strong, bold, stubborn, determined, fearless, loyal and to be good in his job he is alert, active and a go getter! They should be aloof to strangers and loyal to their owner. They need to have a strong ability to discern threat from something benign.  I care for dogs who can do their job, that their working abilities are not watered down with cross breeding. That have been selected for this one job. 

I sincerely hope that the Sarplaninac will not go the way many other breeds have, but I think it might have started down that slippery slope, and that breaks my heart.